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Interview with Mr. Adnan Oktar by American Public TV (December 24, 2009)
December 2009
PRESENTER: Welcome to our weekly program, Bel Ahdan, the show that brings the other Islamic view. Our show brings Islamic ideas and talks about stories from Muslims all over the world; we are here delighted to be a guest of the Turkish intellectual Adnan Oktar. A lot of you know this person, who is now a world renowned intellectual and writes a lot about current issues and we're going to talk about the man, his organizations and his message and some of the issues tthat he is raising recently. Welcome to our show, Mr. Adnan.
ADNAN OKTAR: And welcome to you, I am delighted to see you again.
PRESENTER: Thank you so much. It is good to see you again; last year I was here and it was Eid ul-Adha, the feast of the sacrifice. Last year, I talked to you on the same night before the Aid.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, true, masha'Allah.
PRESENTER: This evening is Christmas Eve. Tomorrow is the biggest Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. So it's a coincidence that I only come here when there is a major religious celebration.
ADNAN OKTAR: I love the Prophet Jesus (as) very dearly. I am keenly awaiting his return. Of course the day of his birth is a very important event, a cause of great joy for us. But insha'Allah Allah will permit us to see him with the eyes of this world.
PRESENTER: Wonderful. Speaking of the two religions, two holidays, what do you think is the biggest challenge that we are facing nowadays. Is it a clash of culture, a clash of religions, a clash of you know, poor and rich? What are the biggest challenges that are facing humanity now?
ADNAN OKTAR: The most important issue is the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as) and the return of the Prophet Jesus (as). The return of the Prophet Jesus (as) is close at hand, with just 10 or 15 years remaining, and that is extraordinary, as 15 years go by in the blink of an eye. Hazrat Mahdi (as) has already appeared. Mankind is therefore entering an age of peace, love, brotherhood, friendship, joy and happiness. This is the greatest event in the history of the world, there has never been such a great happening before.
PRESENTER: Sometimes you are general in your ideas, and sometimes you are very specific, like you say 10 - 15 years. What are those numbers, what does it mean to you and how do you come up with those numbers?
ADNAN OKTAR: One can easily come by this information from the hadith, from the hadith of our Prophet (saas), from Sunni texts and from Shiite texts.
PRESENTER: Here are some issues that the West, Western audiences, Western media, when we talk to them, we use our sources as Islamic sources which they may not be familiar with or they may not even believe in, so how do we talk to people who don't even believe in those sources?
ADNAN OKTAR: The sources I cite on my web site are reliable and they can access them very easily from there. But the important thing is that the hadith I refer to have all come true. A 1000-year book of hadith has come true word for word, and that cannot be denied. That is how we see the accuracy of these texts. Because they exist in state libraries, in giant libraries, in the Suleymaniye library or others. They exist in the libraries of Baghdad, exist in private collections as original texts. There is therefore no problem with resources. And thus there can be no problem of doubt in reference to the resources.
PRESENTER: When I talk to the American media, and I'm telling them I'm going to visit Mr. Oktar, some of the issues they want to know about are; they usually want to know your story. What you say, it is not well told in the American media, I don't know about Europe, but in the American media. They usually take it very lightly, with oversimplifications, and I feel that what you're bringing to the table, as the role of Islam in modern life, is not clear to them. And I want to give you the chance to tell me, what is Islam now, in the 21st century, bringing to the table, to deal with modern issues like terrorism, poverty, women issues, child abuse, all these modern issues the West is dealing with, and capitalism failed to deal with these issues? Can Islam help in dealing with these modern issues, and how?
ADNAN OKTAR: There are some aspects of Islam that will be brought up by Hazrat Mahdi (as) and there are also some more aspects that will be brought up by the Prophet Jesus (as). Or else, Islam exists at the moment, but is not being properly applied. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will enable it to be applied. The Messiah (as) will enable it to be applied. Consequently, the true meaning of love will be applied 100%, and affection, compassion, friendship, cleanliness, goodness and forgiveness will be applied one hundred percent, this is very important. The absence of anarchy on earth is not enough, the lack of love on earth is a form of anarchy. The absence of companionship, friendship is also a form of anarchy. These are also intense forms of anarchy. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will eliminate that anarchy as well and the Messiah (as) will eliminate that anarchy.
PRESENTER: It's very interesting as a Muslim scholar and an intellectual, you talk a lot about love in Islam or Islamic love. A lot of the West, they do not really very much associate love with Islam. Love is Jesus, and it's in more Christianity. Islam put a lot of emphasis also on justice and violence is really now the identity of Islam and Muslims through the media. So tell us a little bit, where is Islamic love? What are you talking about, what do you mean by love? I mean is this ideology or feeling? Talk to us a little bit about this love in Islamic thinking.
ADNAN OKTAR: Love; Allah manifests His Appearance on humans, animals and plants. Allah manifests Himself on them by His Name Jamal (The beautiful). We feel an intense, positive sensation towards that in our hearts and souls, we feel an excitement. And we develop everything in a positive sense. That is to say, That is to say we become helpful, become protective over people, be patient and forgiving. Love lies at the heart of all these. We pay heed to cleanliness and we put an end to disturbance. These are all manifestations of love.
PRESENTER: Are humans, you know, is their nature love or violence. Is this something natural, the potential for violence and to do bad? But is there the same potential for love and do good? So how do we make sure that the nature of violence is not really the dominant one and that the nature or the tendency to love is really taken over, and as you say it's 100% love and mercy?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course there exists some negatives sides to people, but it is the positive side that constitutes the essence. In other words, people delight in love, affection, compassion, cleanliness and goodness, and they have a desire for Paradise in their souls, and that only comes about by living completely by Islam. At the moment, Darwinism stands opposed to goodness and beauty in the world, Darwinist and materialist philosophy. Following the appearance of Darwinism and materialism on earth, 350 million people were slaughtered; World Wars I and II broke out, fascism and communism appeared, love was removed from people's hearts, the spirit of friendship and brotherhood was taken away and people became selfish and egotistical. Oppression had spread all over the world. And the system of Hazrat Mahdi (as) will do away with that heretical idea. Hazrat Mahdi will do away with that idea. The Messiah (as) will arrive to a climate that has been made easier and better, The Doomsday is very nigh. We can expect Doomsday to happen around 2120, insha'Allah. And people will taste that love and beauty for the last time and they will experience this feeling of brotherhood in its perfect form for the very first time. Globally it will be the first time in such a comprehensive manner, because almost all of 7 billion people will come to belief during the times of Hazrat Messiah(as). In the time of Messiah(as) there will be nobody who does not believe. They will all become Muslims. People were unable to perceive my works much at the beginning. But my making Darwinism kneel down globally has led to enormous changes in the world. Today in Turkey for instance, progress toward the Turkish-Islamic Union has accelerated inconceivably. The idea of Islamic Union has cropped up all across the world. Christians have become stronger and braver because we have demolished Darwinism. The enthusiasm and fervor of Jews has increased. They have become more proactive and devoted to their faith. However it was the exact other way round before. I mean there was a real tough atmosphere, Darwinism was the prevailing power. It was a prevailing power that had pulled down the Ottoman Empire. But Darwinism is now history and the road ahead for believers is clear. People can now live by their faiths without any difficulties. But it was me who was instrumental in this, by Allah's choosing, by Allah's creation.
PRESENTER: It's interesting that you talk about the end of Darwinism when we celebrated the 200 years since the birth of the founder of Darwinism. When you talk about Darwinism is responsible for all the evil and violence, of course you're talking about, biological Darwinism or Social Darwinism? And what about the violence committed by those who believe in creationism, like the crusaders, Islamic explorers. There is also violence committed by, let's call them non-Darwinist religious adherents and religious followers of Allah. There's a lot of violence committed in the name of God, Allah or Jesus whatever the religious name is. So Darwinism has no monopoly on violence. So it could, what assure us that %100 belief in Jesus, and what's going happen in the next, I think you said, the 15 years? Can you assure us there's not going to be any violence any more?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, violence will come to a complete end and the whole world will become Muslims. We will all see this together. You are young, you will see it. In the scripture of Christianity, in the true Injil - and we do accept the Injil, as it is a true scripture,
I mean the original form of the Injil is a true scripture, although it has been changed later on. However it was not changed completely, only in part. - in the Injil violence and killing people is by no means accepted. What the crusaders did is an evil consequence of their being directed by the masons. The Crusades were a slaughter organized by the Knights Templars, so we can neither put blame on the Christians for that and nor on the Injil. That is to say putting the responsibility of such an act on passage from the Injil, may Allah forbid, is unthinkable. One cannot think that a Christian, a devout Christian had made an error there. What happened there was the Knights Templar deceiving ignorant people. The people who commit terrorist attacks in the name of Islamic terror are Darwinist, materialist, socialist, communist and Stalinist people. Consequently the word Muslim is only written in their ID cards. However their actual faith is the communist and terrorist belief. They are people who espouse the ideas of Ho Chi Minh and Che. We cannot call them Muslims. The Muslims we know are, the affectionate and compassionate people described in the Qur'an, who even forgive murder.
PRESENTER: No matter how wonderful the word, the book of God, the Bible or the Qur'an, or no matter how wonderful or magnificent the text is, at the end of the day it will depend on the interpretation of the text. So those who use the text of the Qur'an to commit violence like 9/11, terrorism, those people also use verses of the Qur'an and hadith to justify their violence. So is it really the message that is the problem, or the people are the problem? Because we still have to interpret what God has given us and much depends on who we are and what state we are in and what we are trying to do. So I just want to understand the relationship between the text of the Qur'an and the people, the Muslim people who are going to act upon that interpretation. And that interpretation we have no control over. I mean we have a billion and a half Muslims and every section in the world, they have an interpretation of this. We have, Pakistani, Kaadi, Talabani, Saudi Islam and Algerian Islam, that Liberal Algerian reference. So everybody is using Islam and the text to justify their acts.
ADNAN OKTAR: Interpretation is of course very important. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will provide the most perfect interpretation and he will eliminate all the sects. That is both Sunni and Shiite belief. Even in the Iranian Constitution, the Iranian Constitution will become null upon the arrival of Hazrat Mahdi (as). In other words, what Hazrat Mahdi (as) says would then apply. In Sunni belief, too, it is clearly known that all the schools and sects will disappear, and that all interpretation will be done according to Hazrat Mahdi (as). And it is known that people will behave according the Mahdi(as). Even the Prophet Jesus (as) will do what Hazrat Mahdi (as) says. He will accept him as his imam. Therefore, Hazrat Mahdi (as) is a person of love, affection, compassion and friendship in this century. He will bring joy and happiness to mankind through true love and a perfect interpretation of the Qur'an. Of course anarchy cannot come to an end and there can be no peace in the absence of Hazrat Mahdi (as). Let me state that. That is how it appears according to the hadith.
PRESENTER: Every religion will have their own Mahdi, and I don't know if they are talking about the same thing. But let me go to do my sightseeing yesterday. I was fortuned to go on a visit some of the museums here, one was the Harem, in that Sultan's Museum, and I was amazed at the artifacts that they have there. Some of which I didn't even know of, I never knew about this, but they actually have some evidence like some hair of the Prophet's (saas) beard, a remnant of the Khan arm, which talking about thousands of year. I am looking at this magnificent civilization. And what Islam at the time that actually was powerful enough to bring this into being, you know, 1500 years of confidence and civilization and all that. And the way they are building the mosques and the way they build their empires, they seem very confident and it seems like people thought they were going to stay forever. And now, when you look at the Islamic and Muslim world, there is a totally different picture. You know Islam is not producing anything around the world, no ideas, science or economics or anything. They have been idle for the last 500 years. So, take us from the time when Islam was very powerful and confident, and building all these civilizations, and now they are bunch of consumers, receiving ideas from the West, and just standing on the sidelines and watching what the others are doing.
ADNAN OKTAR: When the Qur'an was sent down the Mahdi was the Prophet Mohammed (saas). That is, there was a leading Mahdi and he caused people to live by the Qur'an in practice and ensured that they lived right. He gave them excitement and fervor in its true sense. The Mahdi (as) of the End Times will also interpret the Qur'an, and like our Prophet (saas) he will ensure that people live right and will cause them to feel that love, passion and fervor. Therefore, the fact that Hazrat Mahdi (as) is described in various faith is a sign that the system of the Mahdi is true. The Messiah (as) awaited in the Torah is Hazrat Mahdi (as). The Mahdi awaited by Sunni and Shiite is the same. The time has come. And I believe that Hazrat Mahdi (as) is already here.
PRESENTER: What was the biggest downfall for Muslims or Islam? What was the start of the decline of the civilization and the absence of the effect of the Mahdi, the real Mahdi who is the prophet. When was that, when did it take place and what was it that really brought the declining of the Islamic civilization? When and who and what?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is something known as secret innate knowledge(Ilm el-Ledun), that is the science of Ledun, which is unknown to man, a knowledge known to Allah only. In reference to this, before the coming of our Prophet (saas) for instance, society had to be degenerate. And it is Allah Who causes degeneration in the society. And Prophet Mohammed (saas) came and all was well for a definite period. Then Allah made the society degenerate once more for the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as). And now Mahdi (as) will again come, though when he does people will attach little importance to him and he will have very few followers. Some will even accuse Hazrat Mahdi (as) of irreligion. They will claim Hazrat Mahdi (as) is on the wrong path, a bad person. Therefore, he will have only a group of a few young people around him. Just like the Companions of the Cave as described in the Qur'an. They will leave their families and come to Hazrat Mahdi (as). Together with those few followers, who will number just 313 people, Hazrat Mahdi (as) will make Islam prevail the whole world. Christians will also benefit from the presence of Hazrat Mahdi (as). Christianity will also grow stronger. The Jews will benefit too, Judaism will grow as well. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will be instrumental in the growth of all 3 faiths. He will make Christianity and Judaism draw closer to Islam. Moreover again in the hadith it is stated that he will rule Christians with the original Injil and Jews with original of the Torah. That time has now come. Accordingly mankind is now seeing the Hazrat Mahdi, whom people are be unaware of, just like they were unaware of the Prophet Joesph (as) in his time. But they fail to take cognizance of him. Hazrat Mahdi(as) see them but they fail to see Hazrat Mahdi (as) for who he is. There is an hadith that it will be just like it was with the Prophet Joseph (as).
PRESENTER: You mentioned that people becoming more religious is the solution. But a lot of people think that is the problem, becoming too religious; Israel, Afghanistan, even in America, when Bush came with his crusaders, and becoming, running a face value for foreign policy and that was so dangerous that we mixed religion with politics and economics. So a lot of people think being too religious is the problem, not the solution as you mentioned.
ADNAN OKTAR: Everywhere and everything will be dangerous in the time before Hazrat Mahdi (as). Many things will be dangerous. Very few things will be safe. Therefore, administrations will also be dangerous or mistaken, and many will be corrupt, as it is stated in the hadith. In any case, if that time were perfect there would be no need for Hazrat Mahdi (as). Imperfection and a misinterpretation caused by the misinterpretation of devoutness, is required for the need for Hazrat Mahdi (as) to arise. The Mahdi (as) will bring mankind happiness and felicity by correctly interpreting those hadith that were previously misinterpret and by correctly interpreting the Qur'an. That is an attribute of Hazrat Mahdi (as). But an irreligious society is a terrifying one. Disasters, collapses and scourges follow on one another's heels.
PRESENTER: Talk to us a little about the Turkish Islamic Union. When did it start? Why do we have it and what is its mission?
ADNAN OKTAR: I mentioned the Turkish-Islamic Union two years ago. And after I spoke about it, Turkic countries such as Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan and Islamic countries began lifting off the requirement for visa. What does lifting off the visa requirement mean? It means people from these countries being freely able to meet and do business with Turkish people and to enjoy free social relations. Shortly thereafter, after visas have been done away with, passport requirements will be lifted, too. What does the lifting of the requirement of passports mean? A Turkish-Islamic Union, like an Islamic common market, a Turkic common market will emerge. However the aim in this is not a political one based on advantage, but a union dominated by feelings of love, affection, compassion, friendship and brotherhood. Therefore, above them all will be love of Allah, a fervor stemming from love of Allah and fear of Allah. Life will only then acquire meaning. Just eating and doing business do not make people happy. Economies are collapsing, as you see. The main reason for the economic crisis is lovelessness, selfishness, egoism and, above all, Darwinism. But the collapse of Darwinism, the increasing elimination of lovelessness, and the world dominion of love, affection and compassion are all spreading rapidly. Therefore, the Turkish-Islamic Union is on the ascent and it will be completely united in one-two decades, insha'Allah.
PRESENTER: So, you separate politics from religion in this organization?
ADNAN OKTAR: Politics, religion, diplomacy, economy... They are all interconnected. That is because religions set out moral virtues. Consequently, moral virtues are also important in politics. It is also important in diplomacy. Politics becomes immoral in the absence of moral virtues. You cannot have politics without ethics. You cannot have economics without ethics. Therefore, religion is everywhere. In other words, these are feelings such as love, affection, compassion, friendship and brotherhood. One cannot imagine politics without them. And since these will be present in politics, arms will be done away with. Bloodshed will cease. Nobody's nose will even be made to bleed. Our Prophet (saas) says this in the hadith. Wars will come to a total end. Wars arise where oppression exists in politics. Wars arise when there is lovelessness. Wars arise from selfishness and egoism. When moral virtues come, therefore, a climate of peace will emerge. Christians, Jews and Muslims will be brothers. Christians will worship as they wish and will be free. Jews will be free and worship as they wish. And Muslims will be free and worship as they wish. But in addition to that, all beliefs will be free. Freedom, justice, love and peace will literally rule the world. It is apparent that there is need for moral values for this. When we say the lack of moral values we mean the absence of the moral virtues. I am referring to people feeling no need for any kind of ethics. A collapse will occur in such an environment. And it is the reason for the collapse in the world. It is the collapse of morality.
PRESENTER: So, as of now, what would be your relationship with the political establishment in Turkey, for instance? Is there any restriction on your organization? Any pressure? Are you free to assemble, to bring all these people together and apply the mission of the Union?
ADNAN OKTAR: We are relatively free, of course. More free than we were before. But of course people can easily open legal proceedings. They found some young girls recently, for instance. They found a few people, one of whom was like a member of the mafia. Someone very sinister. One of the girls was a former satanist, someone well known in Ataköy [a district of Istanbul]. Nicknamed Saxo. She had had relations with most of the boys in the school. Someone known for loose morals. They brought her in as a secret witness against us. Dealing with these things takes up a great deal of time. There have been constant cases regarding alleged criminal enterprises since 2001. We have always been acquitted but the cases have kept coming. Bringing charges is easy. It is also very easy to find false witnesses. What is worse is that the alleged Ergenekon organization was even organized within the judiciary. Alleged Ergenekon was very powerful in the Turkish judiciary. That influence makes me uneasy. One is concerned about them intervening in any matter, putting pressure or guiding the judges. The problems are generally of that kind. Otherwise, there is no threat of danger like there used to be.
PRESENTER: Why are they hostile to the union? Why are the political establishment hostile to your union? What threat does the union pose to the political establishment?
ADNAN OKTAR: I have never seen any obvious hostility toward believers from the government. There is no such pressure on us either. But the alleged Ergenekon organization is putting pressure on us. Let me say that Adil Serdar Saçan seems to have a major impact in organizing the people who accused us of setting up a criminal enterprise. A concern arose in our minds. That is how it occurred; they had set up an artificial criminal case against us. But the person who prepared the police depositions was a friend of Adil Serdar Saçan's by the name of Serdal Akçal. In other words the person who ran the operation is the person who had previously tortured our colleagues, Adil Serdar Saçan. Serdal Akçal was his friend, and he is on trial at the moment, isn't he?
OKTAR BABUNA: Yes, on trial for torture.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, he is facing charges of torture and the prosecutor asks a sentence of around a thousand years for them. If we win this case, we will be acquitted in the other case. Because we will have proved that torture was used, and we have 16 forensic medicine reports confirming torture was used against us. Sixteen reports obtained from official state institutions. Yet they still had a police officer by the name of Serdal Akçal to prepare the deposition against us. And of course that person used the kind of language very much against us, one which suggested we were a criminal enterprise. Yet we have given judicial decisions to abate an action against us four times. That is to say, the prosecutor decided not to proceed on four occasions. There is a telephone conversation of Adil Serdar Sacan. That is a finding of the police during the investigations about the alleged Ergenekon organization. As you might know Adil Serdar Saçan is in jail at the moment. He is in prison. He is in prison charged with being a member of the alleged Ergenekon organization. This person called the Kadıköy Justice Department where our case, for which a verdict of lack of grounds was given previously, was to go next. He rang someone, a friend from that department. The person he is talking with gives the impression that he knows the judge. He said he could put them in touch. And as the result of these, even though our case was given the verdict of lack of grounds many times before, the verdict got reversed. Of course I am not saying that he spoke to the judge and obtained such an outcome. But such an incident happened. Many similar things happen. These are the things we are concerned about.
PRESENTER: In most of these cases he was cleared, right? There was no ever a sentence or prosecution?
ADNAN OKTAR: So far, yes. But there is one case from '99. I was sentenced to 3 years in that. That is now being evaluated in the Supreme Court of Appeals. The evaluation is still going on, however there are numerous grounds for annulment of that verdict. We are awaiting the result in that respect.
PRESENTER: Do you feel personally threatened at all as of now? Personally threatened by the police?
ADNAN OKTAR: I have given a petition to the court in order to defend myself. My colleagues have also submitted petitions. Presenting my complaints and those of my colleagues as if they constituted a criminal offence, stating that it is an action of a criminal enterprise, they have filed a complained for that as well and brought a law suit on that as well. In other words, the police is brining the proceedings against us about them. As if to say, "Why are you complaining?" But who should we complain to if not to the state?
PRESENTER: Well. Let's move away from this dark and really tragic way on how we look at our intellectual and our thinker. Facing always a threat. But let's move to... I would like, if you don't mind, you to talk about yourself little bit. I want to get your endorsement and agreement first. I want to know you little bit. A lot of people don't know much about the man, the person.
ADNAN OKTAR: I finished my primary, middle and high school education in Ankara. After that I won a place at the Academy in Istanbul in 1979, the Fındıklı Academy of Fine Arts. The interior design department. In a picture completion there, I came third. I came third in the whole school, out of thousands of people. I draw very well. I still make good pictures. And from '79 to '83 I studied interior design there. Then I’ve been transferred to the Istanbul University Philosophy Department in 1983. I carried on studying there. But there was terrible anarchy and terror at that time. The school was under the control of the communists. It was a very tense and harsh climate. I could not carry on there after that. I then began working on my books. CDs and magazines and, thanks be to Allah, they were very successful. That is still going on, as you see. In terms of character, I am an affectionate and compassionate person. I love people. I want peace, brotherhood and goodness. Tension and conflict disturb me. I think it is good for people to be pleasant and watch out for one another. I want weapons to be abolished and peace to be built. I want Armenians, our Christian brothers, the Orthodox, Jews, Muslims and everyone to live together in peace as brothers. I want no fighting in the world.
PRESENTER: As you know, you were a student of art and studying art, and then now we're talking about intelligent design and the religions, interpretation of the world around that. Do you see God in the way He designed the world, the way He designed the universe? Is there an artistic way of how God put it all together? Do you feel there is a some kind of creative way, a beautiful way on how God put the universe together and how He created the universe, the relationship, human beings, animals? How He put it together. Do you see an artistic way of doing this?
ADNAN OKTAR: In the structure of living things, in their appearances and even in the structure of the cell. There is a glorious symmetry, art and an aesthetical beauty prevailing in chromosomes, vacuoles, the atom and the cell. This can be seen everywhere in the world and in the universe. We can see it everywhere, especially the symmetry and the golden ratio.
PRESENTER: I was told... Feel free to answer or not to answer. You're not married?
ADNAN OKTAR: No, I am not.
PRESENTER: No, OK. You know, I am just curious. Someone as handsome and stylish one like you. Is there a reason why you are not married until now? What is your attitude about women and marriage and all that?
ADNAN OKTAR: Women are of course a great blessing. The greatest blessing in the world. They are wonderful beings that have a huge influence on people. They are perfect manifestations of Allah. But marriage is an institution that takes up a lot of time and would hinder my work and activities regarding my causes. If I were married -I imagine- I would be unable to do 80% or 90% of what I am doing. That is why I am for now unmarried.
PRESENTER: The prophet did more than that and he was married to probably more than one woman. And he did it. And he still had the energy to run a marriage.
ADNAN OKTAR: But he was a prophet.
PRESENTER: Yes. He is a modern prophet
ADNAN OKTAR: I am just a servant of Allah striving on the path of His Prophet (saas).
PRESENTER: It's wonderful. Even if you are not married, you know marriage usually, as they say is building the family based on merit and building the society based on women. And you said that women are really the source of all this happenings. The West always looks at Islam as oppressive to women. Can you tell us a little bit about how Islam looks at women and what is the role of women in building a society as Islam sees it?
ADNAN OKTAR: Woman is protected under Islam. They are not made to do difficult work. Hard work is the responsibility of men. It is a man’s duty to look after a woman. So woman is an entity protected with love and affection, literally treated like a delicate flower. Allah says He raised Hazrat Maryam (as) like a flower. It is said that Hazrat Maryam(as) was raised like a delicate flower and Allah says that He made her "superior to the worlds." He says that Hazrat Maryam (as) is the ideal woman, the most perfect woman of the worlds. That is the ideal one. In Islam the rights of women are very much more than the rights given to the men. Consequently the things being said are superstitions put forward by some bigots. One must not believe in them.
PRESENTER: I am sure a lot of Western women, American women will be probably offended by being described by him as protected or like a flower. But in general what do you think of American women or Western women as you understood them and compared to the Muslim women?
ADNAN OKTAR: Women become rebellious, aggressive, harsh, masculine and unbending as a result of not being protected. But protected women are more affectionate, modest, good natured and woman-like; they behave better and are more restful to be with. In other words, to involve a woman in conflict and struggle, to wear her down physically and emotionally, is oppression, not freedom, something very bad for her.
PRESENTER: And how does he look on Western women?
ADNAN OKTAR: Western women are generally high-quality and pleasant. I like them very much.
PRESENTER: I know. Some of the Western women want to have the same equal rights as men. You know they don't want to be protected. They can protect themselves. And they want to make their choices on their own. Not providing protection when it is not needed or asked for. So not imposing protection on women. They want to protect themselves and they want to do the same thing as men do. They want to join the army, they want to marry whoever they want. So that's the issue of Western women. Having the same equal rights as men. But your take you say women are different and they need to be protected, so they have different rights.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course equal rights should be given. They should even be given more rights. That is another matter. But I see what happens to European women as a result of not being protected. I see it in famous artists or writers or others. Before the age of 30 even they become very serious, masculine, rough and are headed in the direction of harshness and collapse. They lose their feminine appearance, all their attractive feminine aspects. Consequently, this mindset ruins them. But if they were to be cared for and protected, if they were not put into difficulties, if they were held in reputation and if they were not subjected to psychological oppression and not made to live under hard and harsh conditions, they would not end up like this. But they force them into these hard, harsh and bitter environments and they got crashed physically and mentally. I mean when a woman becomes hard, aggressive and though, her appearance cease to be like a woman. She starts to look like something else. Consequently, doing that would not be for their benefaction, we would be doing them wrong.
PRESENTER: Obama. President Obama. President of America, won a Nobel Prize. But he is launching two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Launching a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. And he won the Nobel Peace Prize. And some people say that it should have been a Nobel ‘War' price. Not a peace prize. What is your take on Obama's winning the Nobel Peace Prize?
ADNAN OKTAR: Obama is of course much better in comparison to previous administrations. He is more humane and reasonable. Obama's positive aspects should be encouraged. We need to encourage his good and excellent aspects and incite him to be even better, rather than talking against and upsetting him. That is why the peace prize was appropriate. But the people around him have to fully support those positive aspects. And the whole of the public.
PRESENTER: A Nobel Prize. And two wars in Iraq and Iran. Obama is sending more troops to Afghanistan. He is continuing with the wars and not changing the policy of the last president. Our former President Bush. So in a way he is launching the same war Bush did, but still talks about international peace and winning the peace prize.
ADNAN OKTAR: There can be no solution like that. It is a tragedy for the American troops, and for the Muslim troops there. American soldiers are being killed there at a young age. And Muslims too. They are being martyred in great numbers and a very sad picture is emerging. The solution to this is Hazrat Mahdi (as). It is the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as) and return of the Messiah(as). We need to prepare the groundwork for the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as). No other solution than Hazrat Mahdi (as) can bring peace and salvation there.
PRESENTER: What do you personally think of the Taliban?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am strongly opposed to violence. My style is based on the Qur'an and the hadith. I favor winning people over with love, affection, science, technology and art by persuading them, by respecting people, by embracing Muslims, Christians and Jews and by working to turn them into each other’s brothers. That is the activity I favor. I do not adopt of any other attitude. Consequently the Jews are also our brothers in La Ilahe Illa Allah (There is only One Allah) they are our brothers who believe in the Oneness of Allah. Many Christians also believe in the Oneness of Allah. That belief in the trinity is gradually disappearing. We all believe in the other prophets in the same way. We all believe in the prophets Moses (as), Abraham (as), Ishaq (as) and Jacob (as). We all believe in the Hereafter and that we will be resurrected in the Hereafter. On account of such we have a lot in common in terms of belief. The aspects that divide us will be resolved in the best way in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as), insha'Allah.
PRESENTER: A lot of Christians in the West do not know, do not understand the role Islam has for Jesus peace be upon him. Can you talk to us little bit about the Islamic Jesus and his status or position in Islam?
ADNAN OKTAR: The Prophet Jesus (as) is praised at length in the Qur'an. He is a worthy and holy prophet. He performed a great many miracles. Those miracles are also described. We are told in the Qur'an he had been taken into the sky, into another dimension, and we see from the hadith that he will return to Earth in the End Times, the times we are living in now. But according to the Qur'an his coming is also a portent of Doomsday. It is told us in the Qur’an that everyone will be Muslims in his time, and that those who believe in and love him will rule the world. Hazrat Maryam (as) is also praised at length. She is described as a model for all the women in the world, the one woman of very high degree. Therefore, Christians and Muslims have much in common in terms of belief.
PRESENTER: Speaking of the Virgin Mary, I was reading that in Egypt now the Virgin Mary appears in 4-5 different places in Cairo at the same time. Do you believe in this? Sightings of the Virgin Mary? Because it's every 10-20 years it happens in Cairo and Egypt and thousands of people, most Christians, go and actually believe in this.
ADNAN OKTAR: Maybe. It is not impossible. Since she is a holy person, that is since she is someone who Allah loves, her soul may appear to people in that form.
PRESENTER: I do appreciate all your time and I know you are busy and probably getting tired. But a lot of people do not understand your union bringing all Muslims together, to work together. And I don't know how this is possible in the context of the Shiite and Sunni conflict which is happening now in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere. Can you shed some light on the nature of the conflict between Shiite and Sunnism?
ADNAN OKTAR: The hadith make it quite clear that these things will be eliminated in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as). They say that such a climate will exist before Hazrat Mahdi (as), that there will be sectarian divisions, that Muslims will struggle against one another, and that there will be war and bloodshed. But sects will disappear in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as). Both Shiites and Sunnis believe that, and the time for it has come. Hazrat Mahdi (as) has also come. We have therefore entered an excellent age.
PRESENTER: Is there anything we can do until Mahdi comes to deal with this conflict?
ADNAN OKTAR: It will be increasingly on the retreat from now on. Because the shadow of the system of Hazrat Mahdi (as) has now fallen over the world. The light of the Mahdi (as) is on the world. It will be gradually declining from now on.
PRESENTER: So when you say the Mahdi (as), is it just an era or an idea, is message or just a new prophet, single prophet? Or just a way of enlightening, a way of changing the way we think.
ADNAN OKTAR: He is not a prophet, but rather a holy person. He is a person however he will have followers. The hadith state that they will be 313 in number. He will act together with them. They will have an intellectual system, and with that they will establish peace, justice and brotherhood in the world.
PRESENTER: I just find it very hard to believe the Mahdi and 300 others and some will go through the clutter of the media 24/7, commercial and material life, people are busy on the internet and shopping malls and I just can't see how magnificent the Mahdi might be and his 300 followers might be, breaks through all these new technologies that we have that people are using on a daily basis. And the message of materialism, consumerism is the dominant one. The average American gets three thousand commercials a day. And I don't know how the Mahdi can fit into this?
ADNAN OKTAR: Think of it this way. We are the vanguard of Hazrat Mahdi (as), for instance, and we have a small group of colleagues. But we have demolished Darwinism all around the world. All of Europe and America is now living with the shock of that. And enthusiasm for the Turkish-Islamic Union has now seized Turkey, and just about all countries are taking measures every day to strengthen their relations with Turkey. Visa requirements are being lifted, trade links are forming and social links are being established. This is happening in Turkic and Islamic countries, though the majority of Turkic countries are in any case Muslim. A more loving, tolerant and affectionate policy is being pursued with regard to Christians and Jews. This is happening through the shadow of Mahdism, and is happening non-stop.
PRESENTER: I know. You know, as a Muslim myself living in the west in the USA after 9/11 and bin Laden and all that... I see the people who define Islam and Muslims are usually the wrong people and they hijacked Islam from us as an average. What do you think of how the West and Europe treats Islam and Muslims? You know some of the countries prevent the building of mosques, the hijab and Islamic dresses. So in general, what do you think of how the West in Europe and America treat Muslims and Islam?
ADNAN OKTAR: When the West learns about Islam as described by Hazrat Mahdi (as), they will approach it with a great love and enthusiasm. The shadow of the Mahdi (as) is the reason why Islam is spreading so fast in Europe. The influence of the system of Mahdism can be clearly felt all over Europe. A perception of Islam as fanatical, bigoted and hostile to art, beauty and science is being eliminated, and being replaced by an idea that Islam espouses love, peace, beauty, aesthetics and science. That is the Islam espoused by the system of Mahdism. That is the true Islam espoused by the Qur'an.
PRESENTER: I know you invited the British atheist Richard Dawkins to a debate. What do you personally think of him as an intellectual, as somebody who talks about you and about your thinking on so many occasions? What do you think of him personally? What about his ideas and his famous book 'The God Delusion'?
ADNAN OKTAR: I think the masons are guiding Dawkins. He generally seems to be a happy, fun kind of person. His picture sometimes appears on our web site, I just checked if it was still on. However he is a person who hides from the facts. That’s because he has recently adopted a childish language. He has begun saying that proteins, chromosomes and the first cell were all made by an entity from outer space. That shows he accepts the existence of Allah. He is holding out for no reason. He has to be rational. When he looks rationally, he will see that Allah created these structures. Because in order for a protein to come into being, it needs another protein, chromosomes and the cell. It is impossible for a protein to exist right at the beginning. Dawkins is therefore on the ropes and placing all his hopes in beings from outer space. And that shows that he admits the existence of Allah or that he soon will.
PRESENTER: One last thing, Mr. Oktar. Would you be interested if you were invited to come and visit the USA? Would you be interested in coming and visiting and talking to the American people directly without any filter?
ADNAN OKTAR: I would like that very much. I like the Americans more than you can imagine. They are very high-quality and joyous and genuine people who delight in beauty and favor peace. They are the adornment of the world and I like them very much. Of course I would like to see them.
PRESENTER: Well, I'll take this into account. May be we'll send you an invitation to come and talk to America. Thank you so much for meeting me and for all your time. Asselamun aleykum.
ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah. I am forbidden to leave the country, as you know. If that ban is lifted, we can think about it, insha'Allah.
PRESENTER: Thank you so much. I'll remember that. I appreciate it. And good luck with your mission. I appreciate that.
PRESENTER: Welcome to our weekly program, Bel Ahdan, the show that brings the other Islamic view. Our show brings Islamic ideas and talks about stories from Muslims all over the world; we are here delighted to be a guest of the Turkish intellectual Adnan Oktar. A lot of you know this person, who is now a world renowned intellectual and writes a lot about current issues and we're going to talk about the man, his organizations and his message and some of the issues tthat he is raising recently. Welcome to our show, Mr. Adnan.
